Author Topic: Netherrail Ideas?  (Read 194 times)

yqt1001

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Netherrail Ideas?
« on: 2013 03 26, 15:43:58 »
Bla said that netherrail would be fine if we had a legit plan set for building them. :P

Somewhere between y=115 and y=125 is necessary. y=120 is best (y=125 is too close to bedrock I think).

Should we do the wasteful 3x3 track layout like the overworld? Or just a single track set up?
Netherack isn't super strong, enforce the walls or at least tracks in cobble or something else?
Same redstone torch positioning as the overworld system?
Also follows a multiple of 20 on the x/z axis like the overworld system?

We should move all the portals up to y=120, or atleast all the ones that should be connected by the new system.
A nether hub type of thing could also be built to accommodate this in an easier way than the overworld equivalent, Spawntown station.

This is just a proposal for now, work will probably commence sometime after the ender dragon destruction if approved.

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Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #1 on: 2013 03 26, 15:54:09 »
Should we do the wasteful 3x3 track layout like the overworld? Or just a single track set up?
We should have a 3x3 layout because it looks so epic. :P
I vote yes.

Netherack isn't super strong, enforce the walls or at least tracks in cobble or something else?
The whole tunnel should be made of unghastblastable material yes. Cobble would be a start.
I vote yes.

Same redstone torch positioning as the overworld system?
If we make a 3x3 tunnel, yes.
I vote yes.

Also follows a multiple of 20 on the x/z axis like the overworld system?
If we make a 3x3 tunnel, yes I think so.
I vote yes.

yqt1001

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #2 on: 2013 03 26, 16:12:08 »
^ We'll do the above then. :P Bla you should probably make the netherrail station in the nether for the sake of you doing it and not me doing something you hate and rebuilding it anyways.

Rail line ideas:
Spawntown - Oasis City - Chromasheep Farm - Amazonis
Spawntown - Revolt City
Spawntown - Desertopia - Guodesia/Forssa maybe?
Spawntown - Matolony - Mystic Marsh
Spawntown - Capital - Mojikit Stronghold + Vrus - Kinar/Nunatriche
Spawntown - Swamphold - Darvwnse-a - Blaze Farm (some order of this, can't say for sure)

Any complaints or ideas can go here
« Last Edit: 2013 03 26, 16:20:19 by yqt1001 »

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #3 on: 2013 03 26, 17:55:27 »
Hnnnnnnggg Tuesday there ghahahhhh!!! vacation need to also school project vacation end soon I also !!!!!! so many project, ender dragon, 1.5 things, now netherrails, ....

I guess we can just start with a plain and simple Spawntown station in the nether and then I can upgrade it later. Like I did with the overworld one many times.

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #4 on: 2013 03 26, 18:08:06 »
Rail line ideas:
Spawntown - Oasis City - Chromasheep Farm - Amazonis

More like Spawntown - Oasis City+Chromasheep Farms (then Amazonis) because the two portals are a less than 30 second walk from each other.

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: 2013 03 26, 20:33:38 »
Wow, with netherrails it'll take like 30 seconds to go from B-ongatar to Spawntown.
But, if you can't do directly B-ongatar to Spawntown, maybe either B-ongatar to Desertopia and then to Spawntown, or Desertopia to Bongatar to Spawntown.

I kind of want to reinforce it with cobblestone, but then if we did a 3 wide, it would take even more digging, but it's netherrail and in the nether, so it would be easy.

idrc about the torches and positions and stuffs

yqt1001

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: 2013 03 29, 01:46:30 »
Blllaaaa!!!! Get the spawntown netherrail station set up or else I will do it.

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: 2013 03 29, 11:33:31 »
I went to y = 120 and saw bedrock just above me. Based on this graph I decided y = 110 was fine.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Altitude#The_Nether

Setting up rail station at 0 , 110 , 0.

Darvince

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: 2013 03 30, 00:26:54 »
Hey, we should use the top of the nether for stuff.

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: 2013 03 30, 00:51:17 »
stuff like rails

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: 2013 03 30, 01:39:18 »
Hey, we should use the top of the nether for stuff.

Only problem is finding a hole through the bedrock....

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: 2013 03 30, 01:40:50 »
i think Bla made a 2x2 hole at spawn so people lost on top can get down

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: 2013 03 30, 10:59:48 »
Yqt made a hole yes, but the top of bedrock isn't meant for stuff, it's only so people can get down.

yqt1001

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: 2013 03 30, 15:10:12 »
The station is set up now and I have contacted everyone about possible lines.

NETHERRAIL ROUTE 1
Amazonis
Chromasheep Farms + Oasis City
Revolt City
Spawntown
Capital
Matolony
Mystic Marsh

NETHERRAIL ROUTE 2
Blaze Farm
Spawntown
Capital
Mojikit Stronghold + Vrus
Kinar
Nunatriche

NETHERRAIL ROUTE 3
Spawntown
Desertopia + Kolkon 2013


Darvince

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: 2013 03 31, 03:23:50 »
Why can't we do a different station type, especially for the Nether where they're close together?
For literally EVERYONE outside of Europe, good internet or bad, it is impossible to stop at the station and you always wind up stopping past the station. Also, there's no way to tell what town the station is stopping at because you whiz by the sign that tells you this at 10 m/s.

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: 2013 03 31, 10:28:06 »
You can make different station types as long as I approve them. Generally just don't make all sorts of rail branches with starters etc. We need the stations to be modular so the rails can be extended in the future.

I personally have never had any problem stopping at a station. You can hit the minecart once with a diamond sword and it breaks, and the diamond sword takes no damage.

Darvince

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: 2013 04 01, 00:48:55 »
bla that's because your ping is only like 50ms

for pings over like 100ms it's terribly difficult

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #17 on: 2013 04 01, 05:59:23 »
I don't have too much of a problem with stopping at a station.

Maybe we can employ something like what Yqt has with the ground rail using the buttons? Or maybe add a bit of an extra stretch of track so that the cart slows down a little?

I have problems with rail cart lag myself, but at least in the overworld, there is plenty of time as you approach the station. No idea how bad the rail cart lag would be in the nether with the added usual nether lag.

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #18 on: 2013 04 01, 09:45:36 »
But if they slow down it takes longer to get to all stations after the ones you don't have to stop at, plus there needs to be booster at stations so you don't need to walk a long way to the nearest booster from the station. And clicking a button when going very fast would surely be much harder than reading a sign or breaking your minecart. I don't see how that's supposed to help.

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #19 on: 2013 04 01, 13:27:26 »
or, we could do it like with yqt's way in his regions

like, put a


_____  '  _____
          \_/


where it's the regular rail and then it goes down to stop at every station (the stopper is booster rail) and then if you want to continue just press the button again. shouldn't be that tedious





Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #20 on: 2013 04 01, 15:56:10 »
But if you afk on the rails for a while, wanting to do something else while waiting, then it's tedious.

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #21 on: 2013 04 01, 17:21:12 »
first, you can't afk on a miencart

also, you would only need to be at the keyboard for 2 minutes max, for about desertopia -> kaeshar distances
and, you would probably take at least 10 seonds to alt-tab and then to alt-tab back and get ready, so that's only 100 seconds of time you could use.
also http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Powered_Rail#Optimal_Use

so idk why we did 20, 40 would be good too.

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #22 on: 2013 04 01, 17:41:46 »
Well, as far as the slowing down, it just has to slow down enough for you to react and stop the cart.

But if you afk on the rails for a while, wanting to do something else while waiting, then it's tedious.

That works for the overworld, but not so much for the short distances involved in the nether.

If this: http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/bytecart/ plugin were updated, it would work well for solving the problems. Also, if Mojang had followed through on the minecart and rail upgrades that they promised, that would have been great too :P

Investigate whether http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/craftbook/ loads chunks for carts? I'm not neccesarily considering it seriously since it has a load of other stuff and it seems kind of pointless to put that in and disable everything except the load cart chunks feature if it has one. Not to mention it would set off Bla's 'UNLEGIT!!!!' alarm, lol.
« Last Edit: 2013 04 01, 17:55:27 by smjjames »

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #23 on: 2013 04 01, 18:02:03 »
no it would set off Bla's "PLUGIN" alarm.
ask yqt for the plugins, and teel Bla what it does.

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #24 on: 2013 04 01, 18:16:24 »
Lol bong.

The craftbook one does, well, lots of stuff and adds tons of stuff, Bla would have to look at the link itself. I did say that I wasn't thinking of that one as being a serious suggestion.

How about this one? http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/transporter/

Basically what that one does is allow people to create portals that can be used to go between areas and can be used by players on a minecart or boat even. On second thought though, the setup for the gates seems kind of complex.

Bla

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #25 on: 2013 04 01, 19:22:48 »
first, you can't afk on a miencart
I'm not talking about the /afk mechanism. I mean if you don't pay attention to Minecraft for a while because you're on the rail and the transport takes some time where you might as well do other stuff. Not fun to get stopped at every station then.

Really, I don't see your argument for it being so simple, because there's really nothing more simple than simply one-hit breaking the cart at the station where you need to get off, and hitting a button will always be a bigger challenge than looking at a sign if you keep the minecart at proportional speeds.

As for teleport plugins, no. Minecarts loading chunks would be nice, though.

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #26 on: 2013 04 01, 19:23:48 »
on a third thought, teleporting is to unlegit


smjjames check your universesandbox forums pm

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: 2013 04 01, 19:44:27 »
The teleport plugin thing seems like it might be too much trouble to set up a large network on a small server like ours.

Back onto the subject of stopping at a station, I don't have any problems with stopping at one. Once you know where the station is, it's easy enough to use visual cues to get ready to hit the cart with the sword to stop. Though it's still easy to miss a station if you have lag or are not sure where you are.

As far as going AFK, you can't really afk for very long in the short distances. Between Spawntown and where Fiahs station would be in the nether would be about the same distance as from the central part of rail central to either Blue Bay or Ampluterra, or maybe Novascotchara.

My station is already basically set up other than the portals, so as soon as Fiah gets his up and the connecting tunnels are made, we can test out how much of a problem lag would be or in Darv's case, missing the station because he has extreme rail lag.

The Oasis City and Chromasheep station is one big room, so unless you're having HORRIBLE lag, I don't see that area as being easy to miss.
« Last Edit: 2013 04 01, 19:50:11 by smjjames »

b-ong

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #28 on: 2013 04 01, 19:56:14 »
i really have to synch up my bongatar portal

so how do you synch up portals? find the coords in the overworld and then build that in the nether after dividing by 8? does height sagua matter?

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #29 on: 2013 04 01, 20:09:31 »
You can't synch it up because you're banned (and will stay that way until you change your behavior).

For synching it up anyway, yes you have it right. The height doesn't matter AFAIK, yqt said he already got his set up.

smjjames

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #30 on: 2013 04 07, 17:33:11 »
I made a section of track between the wall of the Oasis City-Chromasheep station and the end of the Amazonis netherrail station to test how laggy it is and the rail lag is pretty bad.

Edit: I tried the every 40 blocks method and that is an improvement for me as far as the nether lag goes since there is something causing a lagspike around the chromasheep section of the station.
« Last Edit: 2013 04 07, 18:10:48 by smjjames »

Komrage

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #31 on: 2013 04 30, 00:48:48 »
not to spoil the idea but this just came to mind

http://xkcd.com/1205/

if there is one ride to spawntown per day (and i think one per week is more accurate)

the distance can be estimated at 1600m (desertopia is 1km, kaeshar a bit farther, aeridani too).
that is 200 m by nether

sprint is a bit over 5m/s, rail is 8m/s
40 seconds vs 25 seconds
15 seconds saved, and probably less because of minecart getting on and off

so it is worth around 2-12 hours (5 hours geometric mean) to build the netherrail and stations and move portals and dig tunnels
else you should just walk :)

and this assumes blacraft continues at this activity rate for five years

yqt1001

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Re: Netherrail Ideas?
« Reply #32 on: 2013 04 30, 19:24:29 »
not to spoil the idea but this just came to mind

http://xkcd.com/1205/

if there is one ride to spawntown per day (and i think one per week is more accurate)

the distance can be estimated at 1600m (desertopia is 1km, kaeshar a bit farther, aeridani too).
that is 200 m by nether

sprint is a bit over 5m/s, rail is 8m/s
40 seconds vs 25 seconds
15 seconds saved, and probably less because of minecart getting on and off

so it is worth around 2-12 hours (5 hours geometric mean) to build the netherrail and stations and move portals and dig tunnels
else you should just walk :)

and this assumes blacraft continues at this activity rate for five years

I was never actually going to make the rails, just make it so that if you want to put in rails you can. I just want a ghast proof way to travel. :P