Author Topic: Collective Storages  (Read 1167 times)

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #50 on: 2013 02 10, 18:01:49 »
We decided to collectivize redstone yesterday, that's why they're added. It's up to people whether they want to do that, but if they do, it should be counted. Adding redstone to all collective storages now.

Komrage

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #51 on: 2013 02 10, 20:24:39 »
at this rate of one new collectivized item per month you'll never catch up with the rate of new items being added to minecraft

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #52 on: 2013 02 10, 22:32:39 »
That shouldn't be necessary either, but it shouldn't be hard to speed up the process. Collectivizing an item on the spreadsheet is mostly just copypaste. Ofc it takes some work ingame to arrange the chests... Plus Spawntown collective really needs an overhaul, it's really space inefficient (like the public) design-wise.

Komrage

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #53 on: 2013 02 10, 23:16:02 »
(my post was a joke)

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #54 on: 2013 02 11, 11:56:57 »
(meh)

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #55 on: 2013 03 16, 10:19:07 »
Now that the temporary server stepped in before the satstats updates to the collective storages, maybe everyone could post if they for sure didn't make any changes since last Saturday, and then we could inspect the rest sometime?

I only updated Bong's and my sheets as I didn't make any changes and Bong didn't either for obvious reasons.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #56 on: 2013 03 16, 14:36:08 »
Actually, I haven't updated the collective storage for Oasis City in a while.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #57 on: 2013 03 16, 21:27:22 »
0.O smjjames gonna be in biiig trouble. and here comes another bongfic  :D


they came for him in dark suits. from his gaming place in the dark ally, smjjames retreated deeper and deeper, but it was useless. the men charged forward, ready to ransack smj of his resources because he did not update his chart. smjjames screamed, and attacked back with Rage on his side. then, he quickly filled out the 'now' colume and edited the date for "last edited" to a few weeks ago.  he showed the men the proof, and he was free to go. but, Bla was raging, he knew smj was a master of the computer, and ordered the men in dark suits to capture him, no matter the cost. smj, knowing he had to call for help, sommoned He. He defeated all by a flick of His wrist, and made all the men to Bow down to Worship him. He sensed Bla comming, and told smj to get in the car, as he did. as powerful as He was, Bla was the Master. thankfully, He and smj ran fast enough to escape the Raging Bla.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #58 on: 2013 03 16, 22:48:26 »
It hasn't changed that much. Plus I haven't been playing on Blacraft for a while.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #59 on: 2013 03 16, 22:57:24 »
It hasn't changed that much. Plus I haven't been playing on Blacraft for a while.

same here

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #60 on: 2013 03 16, 22:58:38 »
I'll update it as soon as the main map gets back up.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #61 on: 2013 03 16, 23:12:47 »
i thought the point of it was to check to make sure you were updating on time, not that you could update whenever you wanted...

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #62 on: 2013 03 16, 23:26:04 »
I'm pretty sure that it's just the stuff in storage that changed, not the main collective storage.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #63 on: 2013 03 17, 02:06:59 »
oh you only log the collective, not the public

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #64 on: 2013 03 17, 02:12:19 »
Yeah, it's just that Bla considers all locked chests part of collective or something or other. Still haven't updated in a while though.

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #65 on: 2013 03 22, 22:13:35 »
Mudkipz, I have inspected your collective storage, and did not expect this very big difference from the values (the values I found are in the 20130316 column). This won't be punished because of the temporary server mess (although I do think it's sort of people's own fault when they just refuse to update whenever they store/withdraw something), plus the fact that you're moving storage and I therefore don't know if I actually counted all of it.

But I need to say, you need to clean up the storage. I found things like coal and gold distributed over three different chests, same with lapis I think. I'd like to see you finishing the moving of stuff soon if that's why the values are probably so far off. Or did you simply not update the collective storage sheet?



If the values are off, please tell me and make them correct before tomorrow without storing or withdrawing any items from the collective if possible. kthxbai.
« Last Edit: 2013 03 22, 22:19:05 by Bla »

Komrage

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #66 on: 2013 03 22, 23:51:57 »
there's like a miniscule amount of gold in the organics/mob drop chest because i killed a few pigmen
also there is lapis and gold in the special items chest because they are renamed and not intended for normal use
also there is coal in the mob drop chest because i killed a wither skelaton

but i've fixed all that now

the special chest category has a bunch of lapis, gold, emeralds, and other items renamed to a body part. that was a large source of the error you found. however, they're supposed to be for a hospital that hasn't been completed yet, so i haven't counted them (and won't unless you insist).


also on another topic

the collective storage spreadsheet is used to graph what items are available and who gives how much in a poll.
collective storages are graphed weekly. however, since multiple months ago, there hasn't been a single poll.
so doesn't it seem that recording all item amounts weekly is rather inefficient when we can simply record and post the amount of one item type when a poll comes? i'm nearly 100% sure that i can post how much of a material i have within 3 days, probably yqt1001 and smjjames can too (they're on nearly daily).
« Last Edit: 2013 03 22, 23:57:49 by Mudkipz »

yqt1001

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #67 on: 2013 03 23, 01:25:15 »
Some 1.5 block changes that Bla might want to add tomorrow:
9 redstone = 1 redstone block
4 single nether brick (smelted from netherrack) = 1 nether brick block (irreversible)
4 single nether quartz = 1 nether quartz block (irreversible)

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #68 on: 2013 03 23, 09:28:42 »
there's like a miniscule amount of gold in the organics/mob drop chest because i killed a few pigmen
also there is lapis and gold in the special items chest because they are renamed and not intended for normal use
also there is coal in the mob drop chest because i killed a wither skelaton

but i've fixed all that now

the special chest category has a bunch of lapis, gold, emeralds, and other items renamed to a body part. that was a large source of the error you found. however, they're supposed to be for a hospital that hasn't been completed yet, so i haven't counted them (and won't unless you insist).
If they're private chests, they're collective storage and have to be counted.

also on another topic

the collective storage spreadsheet is used to graph what items are available and who gives how much in a poll.
It is also used to graph how many items we have so that we have statistics of our economy.
collective storages are graphed weekly. however, since multiple months ago, there hasn't been a single poll.
so doesn't it seem that recording all item amounts weekly is rather inefficient when we can simply record and post the amount of one item type when a poll comes? i'm nearly 100% sure that i can post how much of a material i have within 3 days, probably yqt1001 and smjjames can too (they're on nearly daily).
It's not really much less efficient to graph it once a week if you just update the page whenever you store or take out items. That was my recommended method. If it's too much you could use the public storage as a buffer for smaller amounts of resources and store the excesses every once in a while. Graphing it once pr. month would also make the statistics sort of messy - months aren't equal in length, and don't start with the same days, so if we had to graph it every 1st day in a month etc., that could be on a weekday where I'm often too busy to do it.

Some 1.5 block changes that Bla might want to add tomorrow:
9 redstone = 1 redstone block
4 single nether brick (smelted from netherrack) = 1 nether brick block (irreversible)
4 single nether quartz = 1 nether quartz block (irreversible)
I've added them all now.

I updated
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions
to make it more clear that by default, all private chests = collective storage chests => you count them in the Google doc. If you want exceptions to that rule you must get my permission.
« Last Edit: 2013 03 23, 10:08:39 by Bla »

Komrage

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #69 on: 2013 03 23, 16:09:24 »
if we could take apart tools (we can't, but just pretend)
would we poll all enchanted tools in the collective storage, then take them apart for the diamonds when a poll called for it?

because the stacks of items in one of my collective chests are supposed to have a use and are significantly harder to obtain than just the normal stack of defaulty named materials, so if they were supposed to be used in polls, well it'd be kind of like the first scenario above.

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #70 on: 2013 03 23, 18:20:46 »
if we could take apart tools (we can't, but just pretend)
would we poll all enchanted tools in the collective storage, then take them apart for the diamonds when a poll called for it?

because the stacks of items in one of my collective chests are supposed to have a use and are significantly harder to obtain than just the normal stack of defaulty named materials, so if they were supposed to be used in polls, well it'd be kind of like the first scenario above.
What are those stacks?

Enchanted tools aren't good for collective storages for obvious reasons no, but the item library structure works fine for storing them, managing them and making them publicly available.

Komrage

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #71 on: 2013 03 24, 03:34:34 »
i'll put my tools and the stacks of items into the item storage library then. (which will start existing tommorow)

they're imitation organs, (like liver, lung, eye, brain, etc), that are just normal items renamed.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #72 on: 2013 03 24, 12:41:30 »
i think kipz is trying to say that he has norrmal minerals/collective storage items, but he renamed them, so it is worth more then it's used to, and because of that, it shouldn't be able to poll it away like a normal, not renamed organ.

i.e. i had a glass block named "Bla's Head" but then you said i had to count it like a regular glass, even though it took 5 more levevs

Darvince

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #73 on: 2013 03 24, 22:18:42 »
IMO renamed stuff shouldn't be able to be polled away, but it shouldn't be in collective storages.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #74 on: 2013 03 29, 23:31:48 »
Question on Nether Quartz ore. I have some nether quartz ore in a private protected chest, but it's not actually included in the collective storage because there isn't really any section for ore.

I was going to include it into the nether quartz section, but only problem is that you don't say how to deal with the ore.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #75 on: 2013 03 30, 00:22:48 »
what? there's a place on the collective storage sheet where it says smjjames

or are you talking about forms?

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #76 on: 2013 03 30, 11:12:55 »
Ok I'm including the nether quartz ores in the nether quartz count from now on.
The reason I didn't was the same as for coal ore, because people are using it for decoration/different purposes than the actual coal items. But I'm including the quartz ore from now on.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #77 on: 2013 03 30, 12:43:16 »
'k, I;ll set one up a chest for the netherquartz.

Edit: The percentages is a nice addition to the spreadsheet.
« Last Edit: 2013 03 30, 12:45:36 by smjjames »

yqt1001

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #78 on: 2013 03 30, 14:50:23 »
Ok I'm including the nether quartz ores in the nether quartz count from now on.
The reason I didn't was the same as for coal ore, because people are using it for decoration/different purposes than the actual coal items. But I'm including the quartz ore from now on.

Some people use iron blocks for decoration, so we shouldn't include those.

Not sure why you added nether quartz ore but not other ore? :P

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #79 on: 2013 03 30, 17:34:14 »
Diamond ore blocks seemed too decoration-only to include. Gold and iron blocks you get with normal picks so it seemed logical to include those. Idk how to decide whether or not to include the ore blocks...

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #80 on: 2013 03 31, 11:52:49 »
What do people think of alternatively updating the collective storage statistics every 2 Saturdays or every 4 Saturdays or something? Since people seem too lazy to update it once a week or all the time. Would that help much?

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #81 on: 2013 03 31, 12:31:11 »
I'm still fine, as it isn't really that hard. If you have a public storage too, it is a lot easier because you only take stuff out of the collective in needy times. Also, the main problem for me is remembering to count it and counting all twenty+ different colours of wool. heh.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #82 on: 2013 04 21, 13:41:45 »
I'm just letting you know that I just realized I forgot to update the collective storage on Friday night before the EU3 game. I'll go update it now. I believe it was just the amount of diamonds that changed.
« Last Edit: 2013 04 21, 13:45:00 by smjjames »

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #83 on: 2013 06 01, 20:02:14 »
Now that Blacraft is back everyone should remember to keep their collective storages updated again.

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #84 on: 2013 06 22, 19:38:17 »
Updating the sheet once pr. week is clearly unneeded. We could change to first Saturday each month for all I care. Do people like that idea? The problem is just that if it's more rare, it's probably easier to forget. If it means people will just forget to update I don't really like the idea.

Another option could be to make it easier for the lazy people to keep always updated. That could be done by having a safe buffer between the collective and public resources, that is locked but not graphed. But then we would have to set limits on what it can contain, such as 10 diamonds, 20 gold, 50 iron etc., so it's not used for storing everything.

A third option could be to allow actual private property and a sort of gift economy, where we would request stuff from each other. But this would mean we would not have any cool graphs, which is very hard for me to accept. Aren't the graphs nice and cool at all? And planning projects requires that we know approx how many resources we have if we vote, there would definitely have to be a mechanism where we could find out how many resources are stored in UBSR.

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #85 on: 2013 06 22, 20:24:30 »
I just haven't been on in a while, so I haven't updated.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #86 on: 2013 06 23, 02:25:59 »
only ten diamonds? *glances at yqt*

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #87 on: 2013 06 23, 09:57:48 »
No answers to my ideas. :(

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #88 on: 2013 06 23, 12:32:45 »
1. people would definitely forget if it was once a month, and plus, i don't think many people play actively anymore

2. i like the second idea most, thats what i've been trying to do but i was to lazy to even start the idea and build another public storage. my regular house was kinda to small for all the stuff, unless you wanted mixing in chest

3. well for the third idea i don't think it's any different then what we do now, except for claiming that the property is private, not UBSR

the thing is, people have other stuff than blacraft that had made it really interesting, so they kinda ignored blacraft.
I GOT A BLAN: LOCK Community USForum Map - Rev #118
and we'll be safe

yqt1001

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #89 on: 2013 06 23, 17:56:19 »
The reason Blacraft has been so inactive is because no one is playing it. I personally have no time to play it, despite interest in playing. :P Other people are just bored and what's the point of playing if no one else is on?

As far as collective storages go; yeah I have gotten really lazy with updating lately. I haven't played enough to change the amount of resources in there much, but enough that I've taken out maybe a dozen iron ingots and not counted it. I agree with doing it monthly personally, I doubt many people would forget. I like the idea of a safe buffer as well. Good excuse for another building. :P Unfortunately for me that would increase my different storage buildings in Capital up to 5 from the current 4. As far as the private economy goes, I am not too bothered either way.
« Last Edit: 2013 06 23, 17:59:01 by yqt1001 »

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #90 on: 2013 06 23, 18:51:06 »
I thought of the buffer as something like just one single double chest near the entrance to the collective or such, not something you needed an entire storage for, but something a sign would clarify that could be easily inspected along with the collective chests, for maximum inspection comfort service. Umm.

Yes it'd be hard for Blacraft to be active if nobody was playing it. :P I don't play because I don't really know what to do in there and a lot of reasons I'm not really sure about atm. This is a confusing time period.

In the current state of Blacraft, UBSR private economy would only make things easier, but if we actually began to actively use the server again it would probably ruin a lot of things. I would greatly prefer if we could find some way to keep collective storages and graph the resources and get more people to join in this, it is simply extremely useful for if we ever wanted to build something really, really big or simply wanted to help each other.

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #91 on: 2013 06 23, 22:39:19 »
i would play but i have a really suckish comp. and that...

and anyways can you explain what a buffer is

Darvince

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #92 on: 2013 06 23, 23:14:35 »
i am not playing because this comp is too sh­ite and my brother's comp cannot get access to the internet for some reason

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #93 on: 2013 06 24, 13:32:18 »
I realized the main reason I don't play Blacraft atm is that I spent some xp naming a diamond pick I think or I have some diamond tools that I'm not sure what to do with, and the thought of getting on and having to put them into the tool library and swap to iron tools or something like that is just making me tired. It is very absurd yes but.............sigh.

But yes I need to play something, Blacraft would be very nice. For the past several days I've spent all my spare time going back and forth between computer and thinking of what to play and lying down and thinking, it is really making me........ksfdllthfg frustratedgfkgj lksfga I need something to play or just waste my time on so I can avoid all those stupid thoughts all the time extremely much.

and anyways can you explain what a buffer is
The buffer chest would be an intermediate between public and collective chests. You don't have to graph it (like public), but it's locked (like collective).
« Last Edit: 2013 06 24, 14:05:59 by Bla »

b-ong

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #94 on: 2013 06 25, 02:25:37 »
"I've spent all my spare time going back and forth between computer and thinking of what to play and lying down and thinking, it is really making me........ksfdllthfg frustratedgfkgj lksfga I need something to play or just waste my time on so I can avoid all those stupid thoughts all the time extremely much."

I would have done the same. if it weren't for summercamp

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #95 on: 2013 07 16, 10:57:30 »
Updated the law so people now only have to keep the doc updated the first Saturday in a month.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions

Also I am reworking the document currently to add many more items, some help would be nice on which items to include and especially whether they should be listed by category, alphabetically etc.
« Last Edit: 2013 07 16, 12:17:12 by Bla »

smjjames

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #96 on: 2013 07 16, 17:07:05 »
Updated the law so people now only have to keep the doc updated the first Saturday in a month.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions

Also I am reworking the document currently to add many more items, some help would be nice on which items to include and especially whether they should be listed by category, alphabetically etc.

By category and then alphabetically?

Darvince

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #97 on: 2013 07 16, 22:36:38 »
plot twist: blacraft suddenly becomes more active than any server in usf history

yqt1001

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #98 on: 2013 07 16, 23:28:59 »
plot twist: blacraft suddenly becomes more active than any server in usf history

It has the most longevity, so doesn't it already have this title?

Bla

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Re: Collective Storages
« Reply #99 on: 2013 07 17, 07:09:26 »
Smj, sounds like a good idea, was what I was considering already.

Alternatively it could be sorted by item ID's, but that isn't a very logical system.

The hard question is then what the categories should be. I was thinking of two major categories, items and blocks, then subcategories like on the Minecraft wiki, we could maybe copy the categories from there. Items such as ingots, gold nuggets, gems would be listed under the blocks they could be turned into though.