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Public Forums => Blacraft General => Topic started by: Bla on 2012 06 07, 14:19:41

Title: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 06 07, 14:19:41
Use this Google Document if you have a collective storage:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhyGV27WETcEdHZLNHU1LWN5eEhEbVlDQ0laUWQzc2c#gid=8

Collective storages are described in §3.2 in the Law of the Union of Blacraft Socialist Regions (http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions#.C2.A73.2_Collective_Storages).

This is a copy of the sheet from July 14, 2013 (which makes it easier to see the items we had before adding a lot of items to the lists, also has a backup of the comments sheet which isn't in the current version):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhyGV27WETcEdHVTUXhiUGIyYUxRa09rQWxMNmV6ZlE#gid=10
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 06 19, 20:22:00
Bla y u no go to math class? It have no tittle/key.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 06 20, 14:42:47
Meh I don't like it messing with the lines. But it will be added tomorrow.

I have many Thursday statistics and I don't spend a lot of time making the graphs live up to standards set by my teachers. I just make them so that I understand them myself, that's all I need. But since these are going public I can do it.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 06 21, 11:31:11
Updated, with Desertopia and Oasis City as well now.

Also, Spawntown Public Storage will no longer have diamonds, because people keep using them at a rate which isn't sustainable. Maybe that will change in the future, but currently, no.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 06 21, 12:36:52
uhhh, wuts that rerally colorful line at the botum?

Also, im fine with the diamonds thing, i have 22 i mined.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2012 06 21, 18:52:25
uhhh, wuts that rerally colorful line at the botum?

It's actually two lines which are on top of each other, the black one (kind of has a bluish tint to it) is obsidian and the orange is glowstone.

Bla, the updated one doesn't really seem to register the diamond that I have in there.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 06 22, 00:36:44
The graph is only Spawntown Collective Storage, I won't put the other graphs in there before in some weeks at least.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2012 09 06, 03:24:10
plaidania has no official kollektive storage
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 04, 23:36:55
So I have like some glowstone in my potions lab.
Do i have to put that in my collective and go all the way back to my building every time i build, or what?!
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2012 12 05, 00:21:19
So I have like some glowstone in my potions lab.
Do i have to put that in my collective and go all the way back to my building every time i build, or what?!

Is it in a public or private chest? I don't think you neccesarily need to put everything in the collective storage and since we know you do lots of potioning, it's probably fine.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 05, 00:22:08
Yay really? Ok, just waiting for Bla reply to make suuure.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 12 06, 14:47:23
So I have like some glowstone in my potions lab.
Do i have to put that in my collective and go all the way back to my building every time i build, or what?!
If the chest in your potion lab is publicly accessible to UBSR members, you can keep the glowstone in there.

Storing glowstone outside collective storages without it being public isn't allowed. If you need glowstone for potions often I'd recommend building a potion lab next to the collective storage. Or making the chest public if it isn't.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 08, 19:19:31
okay.

Oh, and can i update it Saturday, or do i update it Friday night? yqt1001 says i have to update it Friday night, but you said Saturday. And its confusing because tiem zones.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2012 12 09, 02:22:58
friday night for you = saturday morning for bla
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 09, 03:44:47
oh yeah...
okay ill remember to update friday nght from now on
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 12 09, 13:20:34
It doesn't matter if you update it Thursday or Friday night as long as you don't store or remove items from it between that time and Saturday. As long as it's updated on Saturday it's fine, but it would be nicest if you would include a note in the document on how you update it if you don't always keep it updated. Because then the "now" title is misleading.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 09, 17:05:27
Or could i just put a note saying when it is last updated? (now)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 12 10, 16:06:03
You can do that, but it still has to be updated on Saturday, so if it says Thursday when I graph it on Saturday, I expect that you will not have changed the storage since Thursday.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 11, 00:04:06
OH i get it now!
Thanks for clearing it up. :)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2012 12 15, 04:06:03
i am unable to update the collective storage on time because it the login server was down for whatever reason and it only recently went up and now it is time to sleep so i will update it tommorow on saturday instead.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2012 12 15, 05:47:07
Yeah, I don't know what was going on, another DDoS?....

I updated mine though over an hour ago.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: bong on 2012 12 15, 12:27:05
??
i got on like 2200 EST dunnno about the login servers
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2012 12 15, 18:25:02
Ok, please update the 20121215 column as well if so it has the correct values for Saturday.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2012 12 15, 21:43:51
yeah its fixed now
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 01 22, 06:17:05
hey bla can you add this to the first post

protip: this week i stopped counting stone, so everyone except guodesia dropped.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqSvCC8xs0NzdFhBeTRKRmZHd2VuMVR1bEdNemNERlE#gid=0
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 01 22, 09:47:52
I don't think it really carries any information. I could just put 300k cactus in the collective storage or so and say I make up 99% of the economy. Your statistics don't take into account that materials have different values and that the ones which are graphed are just the tip of the iceberg. Many people store non-graphed items in collective storages or keep many things which aren't graphed in public storages. You can't calculate the "role" of an area in Blacraft from your data.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 01 22, 21:19:37
protip: i know all that you mommy
protip: it's only counting the stuff supposed in the collective storage, excluding stone
protip: it's not supposed to be all official and scientific and completely reasoned out
protip: it's more because i wanted to see the absolute values than the worth of blacraft
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 02 03, 16:50:50
Spawntown ran out of cobblestone a while back so I opened up my small cobblestone reserve for people to use. After a month or so of 2 people taking nearly non-stop I am basically out. Can we add cobblestone to the collective storage? Or am I going to have to smelt all of mine to save the little reserve I have left.

People are too lazy to simply get a pickaxe and mine a bit. It's saddening.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 03, 16:54:05
Yes, we can add cobblestone then.

I am disappointed to see this. We (that would be you, because I am too lazy) could check the logs to see who did something this greedy towards our economy. :b
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 02 03, 18:00:45
I think i have approx. maybe 150 stacks of cobble in my collective storage building. So yay, i don't have to add more chest. wow we're actually low on cobble, maybe we should have monthly quarry digs from now on. jk
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 02 03, 18:17:29
I don't store cobble in the collective storage since it wasn't neccesary to, but I have at least 6+ large chests full of cobble (some in the warehouse, some in the mines, and some scattered elsewhere), so I'm not even close to a shortage of cobble.

I can easily spare a large chest or two, or three to put into collective storage.

Seriously though, how can people be low on cobble? Not that hard to create a quarry.

"maybe we should have monthly quarry digs from now on."

Maybe not monthly, but yeah having quarry digs would be a great idea. Theres several around, Kipz has his massive quarry, Narus cafe/station thing still needs to be quarried out, and I have my quarry.

Mine could be a bit problematic though because theres some big caverns down there, so better wear feather falling boots. Lava shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 03, 18:18:41
I checked and Spawntown still has 3 large chests of cobble plus a bit more. Still very disappointing, though.

We should probably increase the role of collective storages in the future.

Also, if you want to dig simply for the cobble, strip mining sounds like a much better idea to me. Gives you lots of cobble plus all the goodies.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 02 03, 18:29:03
Well, I have been thinking of expanding the strip mine I already have, but not sure infrastructure wise.

The hopper carts and stuff in 1.5 (still hoping they'll put in some kind of high speed rail thing) will definetly help with the mining infrastructure.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 02 03, 19:36:09
Pros

Strip Mining: Ores, sometimes hit caves, ravines, etc. Lava pools too.

Quarrying: Large building areas. Get's sand and sandstone depending on where you are.


So, strip mining would be for ores, quarrying would be for development and sand/sandstone.

Btw when i just started Blacraft I called quarry's "cory".




Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 03, 20:15:48
But the sand and sandstone is separate from the stone unlike ores, if you're doing it for the sand and sandstone you might as well just quarry without going below the sandstone layer.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 02 03, 20:24:21
There really is no point quarrying for stone if you are going for sand and sandstone. Yes, cobblestone is a byproduct of a sandstone quarry if you do it the quick and cheaty way. Nonetheless, in the amount of time it takes to get a few stacks of sandstone, you'd likely get 10-30 diamonds and a chest of cobblestone branch mining.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 02 04, 14:29:40
wait what it's possible for spawntown to run low on cobble of all things? :o
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 04, 16:31:58
Apparently, I haven't been active for months after all, but yes, someone else must be sitting with quite a pile of cobble. Or related things.

/me suspiciously glances at vh's 30k stone!
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 02 04, 19:54:55
most of that was mined from the desertopia quarry thing, and i was going to use it for building something but it seems not anymore so yeah i guess i'll make it public
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 02 04, 20:02:54
Apparently, I haven't been active for months after all, but yes, someone else must be sitting with quite a pile of cobble. Or related things.

/me suspiciously glances at vh's 30k stone!

There was a rush of taking cobblestone from spawntown before it ran out. I think almost everyone did it to some extent, I took 3 small chests worth to use on roads back in early December, all of the excess cobble that I had from then has since been taken from my public storage.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 02 04, 22:34:57
Mudkipz keeps thinking that he can store anything he wants in his collective storage (and he does also :P ). Bla, your opinion?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 02 04, 22:37:27
i've only thought about it once today. make that twice now.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 02 05, 03:52:34
I have taken at most 2 stacks of cobblestone from Spawntown since school 2012-13 began.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 05, 06:14:55
Mudkipz keeps thinking that he can store anything he wants in his collective storage (and he does also :P ). Bla, your opinion?
So does Bong. My opinion is that in the long run, I want all resources in collective to be graphed. In the short run I'm sort of leninent towards it.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 02 05, 19:50:33
good thing tommorow is always in the short run and such logic will cause lenience to last forever.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 02 05, 21:22:03
hey, i would unlock some of the chest, or graph it, but i can't.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 02 09, 20:35:03
everybody Bla added redstone we have to count that!!!
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 02 09, 20:40:18
omg stop lying
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 02 09, 22:04:43
to the total collective storage page

this one (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhyGV27WETcEdHZLNHU1LWN5eEhEbVlDQ0laUWQzc2c&pli=1#gid=10)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 02 10, 17:31:14
Actually, it looks like it's just Aahrus and Spawntown that count those, not sure if we need to count those or if its just those places that have a particularily high surplus.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 10, 18:01:49
We decided to collectivize redstone yesterday, that's why they're added. It's up to people whether they want to do that, but if they do, it should be counted. Adding redstone to all collective storages now.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 02 10, 20:24:39
at this rate of one new collectivized item per month you'll never catch up with the rate of new items being added to minecraft
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 10, 22:32:39
That shouldn't be necessary either, but it shouldn't be hard to speed up the process. Collectivizing an item on the spreadsheet is mostly just copypaste. Ofc it takes some work ingame to arrange the chests... Plus Spawntown collective really needs an overhaul, it's really space inefficient (like the public) design-wise.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 02 10, 23:16:02
(my post was a joke)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 02 11, 11:56:57
(meh)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 16, 10:19:07
Now that the temporary server stepped in before the satstats updates to the collective storages, maybe everyone could post if they for sure didn't make any changes since last Saturday, and then we could inspect the rest sometime?

I only updated Bong's and my sheets as I didn't make any changes and Bong didn't either for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 16, 14:36:08
Actually, I haven't updated the collective storage for Oasis City in a while.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 16, 21:27:22
0.O smjjames gonna be in biiig trouble. and here comes another bongfic  :D


they came for him in dark suits. from his gaming place in the dark ally, smjjames retreated deeper and deeper, but it was useless. the men charged forward, ready to ransack smj of his resources because he did not update his chart. smjjames screamed, and attacked back with Rage on his side. then, he quickly filled out the 'now' colume and edited the date for "last edited" to a few weeks ago.  he showed the men the proof, and he was free to go. but, Bla was raging, he knew smj was a master of the computer, and ordered the men in dark suits to capture him, no matter the cost. smj, knowing he had to call for help, sommoned He. He defeated all by a flick of His wrist, and made all the men to Bow down to Worship him. He sensed Bla comming, and told smj to get in the car, as he did. as powerful as He was, Bla was the Master. thankfully, He and smj ran fast enough to escape the Raging Bla.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 16, 22:48:26
It hasn't changed that much. Plus I haven't been playing on Blacraft for a while.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 16, 22:57:24
It hasn't changed that much. Plus I haven't been playing on Blacraft for a while.

same here
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 16, 22:58:38
I'll update it as soon as the main map gets back up.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 16, 23:12:47
i thought the point of it was to check to make sure you were updating on time, not that you could update whenever you wanted...
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 16, 23:26:04
I'm pretty sure that it's just the stuff in storage that changed, not the main collective storage.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 17, 02:06:59
oh you only log the collective, not the public
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 17, 02:12:19
Yeah, it's just that Bla considers all locked chests part of collective or something or other. Still haven't updated in a while though.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 22, 22:13:35
Mudkipz, I have inspected your collective storage, and did not expect this very big difference from the values (the values I found are in the 20130316 column). This won't be punished because of the temporary server mess (although I do think it's sort of people's own fault when they just refuse to update whenever they store/withdraw something), plus the fact that you're moving storage and I therefore don't know if I actually counted all of it.

But I need to say, you need to clean up the storage. I found things like coal and gold distributed over three different chests, same with lapis I think. I'd like to see you finishing the moving of stuff soon if that's why the values are probably so far off. Or did you simply not update the collective storage sheet?

(http://i.imgdiode.com/TCIwbm.png)

If the values are off, please tell me and make them correct before tomorrow without storing or withdrawing any items from the collective if possible. kthxbai.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 03 22, 23:51:57
there's like a miniscule amount of gold in the organics/mob drop chest because i killed a few pigmen
also there is lapis and gold in the special items chest because they are renamed and not intended for normal use
also there is coal in the mob drop chest because i killed a wither skelaton

but i've fixed all that now

the special chest category has a bunch of lapis, gold, emeralds, and other items renamed to a body part. that was a large source of the error you found. however, they're supposed to be for a hospital that hasn't been completed yet, so i haven't counted them (and won't unless you insist).


also on another topic

the collective storage spreadsheet is used to graph what items are available and who gives how much in a poll.
collective storages are graphed weekly. however, since multiple months ago, there hasn't been a single poll.
so doesn't it seem that recording all item amounts weekly is rather inefficient when we can simply record and post the amount of one item type when a poll comes? i'm nearly 100% sure that i can post how much of a material i have within 3 days, probably yqt1001 and smjjames can too (they're on nearly daily).
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 03 23, 01:25:15
Some 1.5 block changes that Bla might want to add tomorrow:
9 redstone = 1 redstone block
4 single nether brick (smelted from netherrack) = 1 nether brick block (irreversible)
4 single nether quartz = 1 nether quartz block (irreversible)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 23, 09:28:42
there's like a miniscule amount of gold in the organics/mob drop chest because i killed a few pigmen
also there is lapis and gold in the special items chest because they are renamed and not intended for normal use
also there is coal in the mob drop chest because i killed a wither skelaton

but i've fixed all that now

the special chest category has a bunch of lapis, gold, emeralds, and other items renamed to a body part. that was a large source of the error you found. however, they're supposed to be for a hospital that hasn't been completed yet, so i haven't counted them (and won't unless you insist).
If they're private chests, they're collective storage and have to be counted.

also on another topic

the collective storage spreadsheet is used to graph what items are available and who gives how much in a poll.
It is also used to graph how many items we have so that we have statistics of our economy.
collective storages are graphed weekly. however, since multiple months ago, there hasn't been a single poll.
so doesn't it seem that recording all item amounts weekly is rather inefficient when we can simply record and post the amount of one item type when a poll comes? i'm nearly 100% sure that i can post how much of a material i have within 3 days, probably yqt1001 and smjjames can too (they're on nearly daily).
It's not really much less efficient to graph it once a week if you just update the page whenever you store or take out items. That was my recommended method. If it's too much you could use the public storage as a buffer for smaller amounts of resources and store the excesses every once in a while. Graphing it once pr. month would also make the statistics sort of messy - months aren't equal in length, and don't start with the same days, so if we had to graph it every 1st day in a month etc., that could be on a weekday where I'm often too busy to do it.

Some 1.5 block changes that Bla might want to add tomorrow:
9 redstone = 1 redstone block
4 single nether brick (smelted from netherrack) = 1 nether brick block (irreversible)
4 single nether quartz = 1 nether quartz block (irreversible)
I've added them all now.

I updated
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions
to make it more clear that by default, all private chests = collective storage chests => you count them in the Google doc. If you want exceptions to that rule you must get my permission.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 03 23, 16:09:24
if we could take apart tools (we can't, but just pretend)
would we poll all enchanted tools in the collective storage, then take them apart for the diamonds when a poll called for it?

because the stacks of items in one of my collective chests are supposed to have a use and are significantly harder to obtain than just the normal stack of defaulty named materials, so if they were supposed to be used in polls, well it'd be kind of like the first scenario above.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 23, 18:20:46
if we could take apart tools (we can't, but just pretend)
would we poll all enchanted tools in the collective storage, then take them apart for the diamonds when a poll called for it?

because the stacks of items in one of my collective chests are supposed to have a use and are significantly harder to obtain than just the normal stack of defaulty named materials, so if they were supposed to be used in polls, well it'd be kind of like the first scenario above.
What are those stacks?

Enchanted tools aren't good for collective storages for obvious reasons no, but the item library structure works fine for storing them, managing them and making them publicly available.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 03 24, 03:34:34
i'll put my tools and the stacks of items into the item storage library then. (which will start existing tommorow)

they're imitation organs, (like liver, lung, eye, brain, etc), that are just normal items renamed.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 24, 12:41:30
i think kipz is trying to say that he has norrmal minerals/collective storage items, but he renamed them, so it is worth more then it's used to, and because of that, it shouldn't be able to poll it away like a normal, not renamed organ.

i.e. i had a glass block named "Bla's Head" but then you said i had to count it like a regular glass, even though it took 5 more levevs
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 03 24, 22:18:42
IMO renamed stuff shouldn't be able to be polled away, but it shouldn't be in collective storages.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 29, 23:31:48
Question on Nether Quartz ore. I have some nether quartz ore in a private protected chest, but it's not actually included in the collective storage because there isn't really any section for ore.

I was going to include it into the nether quartz section, but only problem is that you don't say how to deal with the ore.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 30, 00:22:48
what? there's a place on the collective storage sheet where it says smjjames

or are you talking about forms?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 30, 11:12:55
Ok I'm including the nether quartz ores in the nether quartz count from now on.
The reason I didn't was the same as for coal ore, because people are using it for decoration/different purposes than the actual coal items. But I'm including the quartz ore from now on.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 03 30, 12:43:16
'k, I;ll set one up a chest for the netherquartz.

Edit: The percentages is a nice addition to the spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 03 30, 14:50:23
Ok I'm including the nether quartz ores in the nether quartz count from now on.
The reason I didn't was the same as for coal ore, because people are using it for decoration/different purposes than the actual coal items. But I'm including the quartz ore from now on.

Some people use iron blocks for decoration, so we shouldn't include those.

Not sure why you added nether quartz ore but not other ore? :P
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 30, 17:34:14
Diamond ore blocks seemed too decoration-only to include. Gold and iron blocks you get with normal picks so it seemed logical to include those. Idk how to decide whether or not to include the ore blocks...
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 03 31, 11:52:49
What do people think of alternatively updating the collective storage statistics every 2 Saturdays or every 4 Saturdays or something? Since people seem too lazy to update it once a week or all the time. Would that help much?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 03 31, 12:31:11
I'm still fine, as it isn't really that hard. If you have a public storage too, it is a lot easier because you only take stuff out of the collective in needy times. Also, the main problem for me is remembering to count it and counting all twenty+ different colours of wool. heh.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 04 21, 13:41:45
I'm just letting you know that I just realized I forgot to update the collective storage on Friday night before the EU3 game. I'll go update it now. I believe it was just the amount of diamonds that changed.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 06 01, 20:02:14
Now that Blacraft is back everyone should remember to keep their collective storages updated again.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 06 22, 19:38:17
Updating the sheet once pr. week is clearly unneeded. We could change to first Saturday each month for all I care. Do people like that idea? The problem is just that if it's more rare, it's probably easier to forget. If it means people will just forget to update I don't really like the idea.

Another option could be to make it easier for the lazy people to keep always updated. That could be done by having a safe buffer between the collective and public resources, that is locked but not graphed. But then we would have to set limits on what it can contain, such as 10 diamonds, 20 gold, 50 iron etc., so it's not used for storing everything.

A third option could be to allow actual private property and a sort of gift economy, where we would request stuff from each other. But this would mean we would not have any cool graphs, which is very hard for me to accept. Aren't the graphs nice and cool at all? And planning projects requires that we know approx how many resources we have if we vote, there would definitely have to be a mechanism where we could find out how many resources are stored in UBSR.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 06 22, 20:24:30
I just haven't been on in a while, so I haven't updated.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 06 23, 02:25:59
only ten diamonds? *glances at yqt*
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 06 23, 09:57:48
No answers to my ideas. :(
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 06 23, 12:32:45
1. people would definitely forget if it was once a month, and plus, i don't think many people play actively anymore

2. i like the second idea most, thats what i've been trying to do but i was to lazy to even start the idea and build another public storage. my regular house was kinda to small for all the stuff, unless you wanted mixing in chest

3. well for the third idea i don't think it's any different then what we do now, except for claiming that the property is private, not UBSR

the thing is, people have other stuff than blacraft that had made it really interesting, so they kinda ignored blacraft.
I GOT A BLAN: LOCK Community USForum Map - Rev #118
and we'll be safe
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 06 23, 17:56:19
The reason Blacraft has been so inactive is because no one is playing it. I personally have no time to play it, despite interest in playing. :P Other people are just bored and what's the point of playing if no one else is on?

As far as collective storages go; yeah I have gotten really lazy with updating lately. I haven't played enough to change the amount of resources in there much, but enough that I've taken out maybe a dozen iron ingots and not counted it. I agree with doing it monthly personally, I doubt many people would forget. I like the idea of a safe buffer as well. Good excuse for another building. :P Unfortunately for me that would increase my different storage buildings in Capital up to 5 from the current 4. As far as the private economy goes, I am not too bothered either way.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 06 23, 18:51:06
I thought of the buffer as something like just one single double chest near the entrance to the collective or such, not something you needed an entire storage for, but something a sign would clarify that could be easily inspected along with the collective chests, for maximum inspection comfort service. Umm.

Yes it'd be hard for Blacraft to be active if nobody was playing it. :P I don't play because I don't really know what to do in there and a lot of reasons I'm not really sure about atm. This is a confusing time period.

In the current state of Blacraft, UBSR private economy would only make things easier, but if we actually began to actively use the server again it would probably ruin a lot of things. I would greatly prefer if we could find some way to keep collective storages and graph the resources and get more people to join in this, it is simply extremely useful for if we ever wanted to build something really, really big or simply wanted to help each other.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 06 23, 22:39:19
i would play but i have a really suckish comp. and that...

and anyways can you explain what a buffer is
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 06 23, 23:14:35
i am not playing because this comp is too sh­ite and my brother's comp cannot get access to the internet for some reason
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 06 24, 13:32:18
I realized the main reason I don't play Blacraft atm is that I spent some xp naming a diamond pick I think or I have some diamond tools that I'm not sure what to do with, and the thought of getting on and having to put them into the tool library and swap to iron tools or something like that is just making me tired. It is very absurd yes but.............sigh.

But yes I need to play something, Blacraft would be very nice. For the past several days I've spent all my spare time going back and forth between computer and thinking of what to play and lying down and thinking, it is really making me........ksfdllthfg frustratedgfkgj lksfga I need something to play or just waste my time on so I can avoid all those stupid thoughts all the time extremely much.

and anyways can you explain what a buffer is
The buffer chest would be an intermediate between public and collective chests. You don't have to graph it (like public), but it's locked (like collective).
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 06 25, 02:25:37
"I've spent all my spare time going back and forth between computer and thinking of what to play and lying down and thinking, it is really making me........ksfdllthfg frustratedgfkgj lksfga I need something to play or just waste my time on so I can avoid all those stupid thoughts all the time extremely much."

I would have done the same. if it weren't for summercamp
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 16, 10:57:30
Updated the law so people now only have to keep the doc updated the first Saturday in a month.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions

Also I am reworking the document currently to add many more items, some help would be nice on which items to include and especially whether they should be listed by category, alphabetically etc.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 07 16, 17:07:05
Updated the law so people now only have to keep the doc updated the first Saturday in a month.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions

Also I am reworking the document currently to add many more items, some help would be nice on which items to include and especially whether they should be listed by category, alphabetically etc.

By category and then alphabetically?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 07 16, 22:36:38
plot twist: blacraft suddenly becomes more active than any server in usf history
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 07 16, 23:28:59
plot twist: blacraft suddenly becomes more active than any server in usf history

It has the most longevity, so doesn't it already have this title?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 17, 07:09:26
Smj, sounds like a good idea, was what I was considering already.

Alternatively it could be sorted by item ID's, but that isn't a very logical system.

The hard question is then what the categories should be. I was thinking of two major categories, items and blocks, then subcategories like on the Minecraft wiki, we could maybe copy the categories from there. Items such as ingots, gold nuggets, gems would be listed under the blocks they could be turned into though.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2013 07 17, 23:19:48
plot twist: blacraft suddenly becomes more active than any server in usf history

It has the most longevity, so doesn't it already have this title?

well it's longlived, but mostly inactive a lot of the time

it's ironic because UBSR had to update weekly during months of inactiveness, and, now that there are many more players on, the update is less frequent
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 18, 08:05:10
it's ironic because UBSR had to update weekly during months of inactiveness, and, now that there are many more players on, the update is less frequent
The nice thing about the Google doc is you don't have to update it if you're inactive. If you're inactive, you don't change your resources, so the values continue to be correct. You could just update it like me - update every time you put something in/out your collective storage. I didn't have to update my own values for multiple months. I just had to update the spreadsheet by copying values weekly.

Also the reason I let it be less frequent is to take into account if such a situation will happen again, which seems likely. And I haven't really felt like implementing any changes to UBSR laws for a very long time for the same reasons as my own inactivity on the server.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 07 18, 15:20:16
as of the quartz you gave me from the collective storage Bla, i actually needed quartz and not blocks so i will be giving them back in the chest i got it from.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 18, 17:05:32
I took 12 quartz blocks from the chest and placed 16 quartz items. What happened to the other 4 quartz blocks?

You can take the items I placed now.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 07 18, 22:36:44
there in bongatar when i found out mining them doesn't break'm into quratz
will bring back asay
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 07 19, 00:11:29
Bla, books and bookcases maybe? You seem intent on adding everything with value. :P
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 19, 07:07:58
Done.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 07 29, 16:56:49
I think I need a new collective storage for the hundreds of new items!  :o
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 29, 19:17:59
The collective storage doc is now updated. Everyone should update it with their collective storage items so it's correct on Saturday, August 3, and every first Saturday in each month from then and on. It is much more detailed than the earlier one, so you should all check it to see whether your values are correct, they probably aren't. Wool, wood, glowstone and other items have all been split up, for example. You should only fill white spaces, the gray ones update automatically.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhyGV27WETcEdHZLNHU1LWN5eEhEbVlDQ0laUWQzc2c#gid=10

If you have any questions, just ask.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 07 30, 15:41:40
So, just to clarify, you want us to update on the first friday of each month or update on the first saturday of each month (or on the day before the first saturday of the month in case the 1st of the month actually does land on a saturday)?

Also, if you're going to list every possible thing, you're missing poisonous potato, though they really have no use right now. For bookcases and books, do you want to count the books stored in the bookcases themselves?

This is just an opinion, but shouldn't the totals be AFTER the things that it is a total of? I'd understand if you have to rearrange a whole bunch of equations if you were to change it.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 07 30, 16:41:53
So, just to clarify, you want us to update on the first friday of each month or update on the first saturday of each month (or on the day before the first saturday of the month in case the 1st of the month actually does land on a saturday)?
From UBSR law §3.2.1:
Quote
Collective storages must be registered in this document, and their manager must update the document so that it shows the correct values the first Saturday (UTC) in each month.
This means it would be a good idea to update it on Friday, and change it during the Saturday in case you move stuff in/out of the storage that day.

In practice I will be copying the values probably around 9:00 UTC, plus/minus some hours. You can see the dates in the first row of every sheet in the Google document. If I've already filled the column with the specific date, there's no need to update it before next month.

If you see I've copied the data and you didn't update it you can still update it and then tell me, then I will fix the values, but I would prefer if everyone remembered to keep their stats updated for when I copy them on Saturday.

Also, if you're going to list every possible thing, you're missing poisonous potato, though they really have no use right now.
I'm not, it would be impossible to list all the millions of potential fireworks rockets, different colors of leather armor, enchanted tools etc. Because of this I've excluded certain items, which I think the item library system works better for.
I've considered adding unenchanted diamond tools and iron tools though.
I've also considered whether we should allow people to store maybe a limited amount of certain items (like enchanted tools) in private chests without using the item library system, I'm not completely sure about this idea.

For bookcases and books, do you want to count the books stored in the bookcases themselves?
What do you mean by this? Can you store books in bookcases? As far as I know, there are bookcases which are blocks, which would simply be blocks when you've stored them in your collective storage, the same way as a chest inside a chest can't hold items. If you mean the books (items) that the bookcase is made of, no, because there is already a cell for the books, so that wouldn't be needed.

This is just an opinion, but shouldn't the totals be AFTER the things that it is a total of? I'd understand if you have to rearrange a whole bunch of equations if you were to change it.
I put them before to have it work the same way as the categories, as a sort of headline before you see all the different clay types etc.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 01, 11:19:07
2 questions:
what are the numbers below the dates? (1,5,9,14,18 etc)
and i know that the greyed area's are the one that are "old" items but what's the point of greying them?\
and what will be the punishment of not updating?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 01, 16:54:02
2 questions:
what are the numbers below the dates? (1,5,9,14,18 etc)
The week.
and i know that the greyed area's are the one that are "old" items but what's the point of greying them?\
You should only fill white spaces, the gray ones update automatically.
They aren't the old items, they are used to sum up a bunch of items and are calculated automatically, they're grey because you shouldn't fill them, if you do, you break the calculation.
and what will be the punishment of not updating?
The UBSR law already states that in §3.2.1:
Quote
If the values are found to be off during an inspection, an amount twice as big as the difference in resources may be confiscated and redistributed to the rest of UBSR's collective storages, excluding Spawntown.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions#.C2.A73.2_Collective_Storages
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 01, 21:59:29
first of all, do i count blaze rods in my furnace?

ps everyone, this takes a while so might want to start early

and Coolman almost fainted when i told him about it

(http://i.imgur.com/aul0ctt.png)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 08 01, 23:54:08
I see nowhere that says you need to have everything. In fact I am hardly planning on including most things.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 02, 01:10:06
but you have to include everything listed in the spreadsheet right?

also, should i just put "0" if i don't have anything or do i just leave it blank
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 08 02, 01:29:56
I usually just put down what are in the chests designated as the collective storage chests.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 02, 07:45:23
first of all, do i count blaze rods in my furnace?
If it's private/locked, then yes. If you don't want to graph your items, put them in a public storage or an item library.
As far as I know blaze rods are very abundant, so if you want to save time graphing, you could simply store the blaze rods in publicly available chests/furnaces.

but you have to include everything listed in the spreadsheet right?

also, should i just put "0" if i don't have anything or do i just leave it blank
Again I recommend reading the law:
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions#.C2.A73.2_Collective_Storages

You can put 0 if you don't have anything of an item, otherwise I will fill it with 0 when I update it on Saturday anyway, because I assume people list the items they store.

Again, I recommend that you reconsider what you store in the collective storage if you don't want to spend the time on updating the sheet. You seem to have put many more items than the rest of us into your collective storage in the past, which was one of the reasons I had to include all the other items in the spreadsheet. I would prefer if people would only store items listed, and request more items to be added to the list, if they need to store different items.

In any case, it's only once a month you update it (unless you update it when you take items out or store them, but that will probably take more time considering how much you use your collective storage), if you for some reason don't have time some day I might be able to do it for you but not all the time.

Also, when you update in the future, remember to change item amounts in the "total resources now" column, I fill the other columns by copying from it:
(http://i.imgdiode.com/YdBd5e.png)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 08 03, 13:47:23
Whoops! Forgot to update the collective storage last night, doing it right now.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 03, 14:14:54
I inspected smjjames' collective storage, and found these values to be off:

Item: Reported number / actual number
Glowstone block: 0 / 161
Brick item: 0 / 896
Nether brick item: 0 / 1728

Total wool: 0 / 1232
Light gray wool: 0 / 227
Black wool: 0 / 109
Brown wool: 0 / 15
Red wool: 0 / 56
Orange wool: 0 / 58
Yellow wool: 0 / 560
Lime wool: 0 / 125
Green wool: 0 / 22
Light blue wool: 0 / 2
Blue wool: 0 / 47
Pink wool: 0 / 11

Note on the wool: I see you last accessed the chest 59 days ago, so this number (1232) must've been different from the reported number the last month (1134).

Birch plank: 0 / 64
Oak plank: 0 / 1024
Jungle plank: 0 / 576
Spruce plank: 0 / 64
Default sandstone: 0 / 1728
Nether quartz ore block: 0 / 128

Blaze rod: 0 / 92
Ghast tear: 0 / 7
5 glass bottles were additionally found, but couldn't be listed in the spreadsheet.

-----

You came online during the inspection, and I see you just forgot to update it, plus I was the one who deleted most of the values when I added all the new items to the spreadsheet, so I don't think it's fair you should compensate for the values being off.

The wool I don't think you miscounted intentionally, but according to the law (http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions#.C2.A73.2.1_Statistics) you would actually have to pay 196 wool to the rest of UBSR (excluding Spawntown) in compensation for it. The colors weren't listed then, so you get to choose the colors. Do you accept the 196 wool to be redistributed?

In other news, the spreadsheet is now updated. It reveals that UBSR now has more than 20,000 coal and 15,000 redstone. How amazing.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 08 03, 14:29:41
Yeah, I had forgotten to do it yesterday, sorry. As for the wool, I don't remember what it was that I had altered almost two months ago and all that. It's possible that I simply miscounted because I have so many different ones, by a rather large number. For the glowstone, nether brick and other stuff besides the separated wood types (which wasn't an option before), I thought I had counted them in the previous collective storage document. I don't think ghast tears or blaze rods were an option before.

I decided to stick the bookcases and two books in the collective storage because I have that surplus laying around.

As for the 196 wool, you can redistribute the yellow ones since I have a good deal of those. Separating the colors is a good idea as that helps against miscounting.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 03, 14:35:13
uh i chose to give my wool back to smjjames so i don't have to recount my wool
thanks
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2013 08 03, 14:41:10
You can always just tell bla to keep it, or just put it in Spawntown public storage.

Also, I divert whatever wool b-ong is sending me to Spawntown (or to whoever else wants it) since I don't really need more wool.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 03, 15:40:25
...Maybe we should implement the UBSR Collective Storage which is tied to the entire state rather than a region so that you can only poll resources out of it and store the wool in there?
If so, we need to choose a place to build it. I don't have a problem with it not being in Spawntown, but I think it should be a place that we know will not leave UBSR, that would be a pretty stupid place to put the storage at least imo.

I could update your sheets with the wool, that would be no problem, but I'm more worried that not everyone may have chests designated for it or even room for it, so I think it might be a bad idea to make the system this way.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 03, 15:44:59
are you suggesting one giant collective storage? because then people will just stop collecting resources because they don't feel it's "their" stuff. source: IC nuecraft
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 03, 21:47:22
No, I'm suggesting the regional collective storages continue like now and one state collective storage that is managed only by voting is built for resources like this case. The resources in the state collective would be spent before the ones in the regional ones as well.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 08 07, 23:55:45
I propose that the state collective is not in Spawntown, and instead somewhere else like Plaidania or Capital.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 08, 06:55:38
I propose that the state collective is not in Spawntown, and instead somewhere else like Plaidania or Capital.
I already proposed that. You're not in UBSR, so I don't see why you should have any influence on it or why you even care.

Plaidania, why?
Capital, why?

Capital is in YUP, even though it follows UBSR economics I dont like the idea of having the UBSR State Collective Storage outside the UBSR state. The reason should be logical. Yqt has also said sometimes when I considered inspecting his collective storages that he might leave UBSR if I do that, so I have the impression that YUP regions may not be a very "secure" location for the collective storage in the long term, but Yqt knows that better than I do obviously.

Plaidania, is a part of Chazabethia which is UBSR, but you seem to have been managing it the most, and you're not UBSR. It's not clear to me anymore who should be considered the manager. If it should be in Plaidania, then I think Plaidania should definitely be considered a permanent part of UBSR.

I would suggest maybe Yukitown, Ampluterra, Matolony, or Revolutea as possible alternatives to Spawntown. They have been a part of UBSR for a long time, but they should consider whether they're sure to stay a part of it as a region first. Kakto City or Epicland (possibly Pine Hill) are other options which we know will be a part of UBSR.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: yqt1001 on 2013 08 08, 17:24:30
First of all its UYP. :P (Union of YQT Provinces) though YUP sounds better.

Anyways, if Capital were to get this storage it would stay under the economic laws permanently. No need to worry about me leaving. However I see no reason why it shouldn't be in Spawntown?

Revolt City and Matolony would be other good options as well.

It would be cool to see a sort of Olympic style bidding for the storage, all interested participants have to sell their area to you as to why it should host the storage, but I dunno.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 08 08, 17:33:17
so the storage is only for stuff that people miscoutned?

Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 09, 06:30:19
And stuff people choose to donate to it, which people probably won't do a lot. It would be mainly for miscounted stuff unless we choose to use taxes etc. or something like that (which I don't currently think is a good idea).

I think the reason why some people don't want it in Spawntown is because they think UBSR/Blacraft is too centralized and think there should be more incentive to travel to other places.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2013 08 10, 19:30:20
Yes, it is fine if Plaidania is part of UBSR, I manage it but I want it to be in UBSR.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 08 31, 07:37:58
Remember that September 7, next Saturday, is the next day where you must keep your collective storages updated in the Google document.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 09 01, 19:30:06
moved my storage to -413, 59, -1050

named all the chest and now i'm only doing 34 items! woo
grahin' it now
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 09 06, 21:42:24
Reminder: Tomorrow is Staturday for Blacraft, remember to update the Google doc with your collective storage contents.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2013 09 06, 22:39:20
hmm smjjames, last active aug. 9
not looking good
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 12 06, 21:43:05
Remember to update collective storages for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2013 12 14, 16:24:32
Added new wood types, saplings, leaves, new fish, packed ice, red sand, new categories with new flowers and stained glass + panes to the google document.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 01 04, 16:07:06
I inspected Aahrus collective, it clearly wasn't updated, and I can see that none of you have touched the document since the update in December. Please update them. (No point in updating Aahrus now that I did it). If I find the values to be off by UTC midnight, resources will be confiscated according to the UBSR laws.

http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions#.C2.A73.2_Collective_Storages

Remember what the law says:

Quote from: §3.2.1Collective storages must be registered in this document, and their manager must update the document so that [b
it shows the correct values the first Saturday (UTC) in each month.[/b]
If the values are found to be off during an inspection, an amount twice as big as the difference in resources may be confiscated and redistributed to the rest of UBSR's collective storages, excluding Spawntown.

Is it a problem for people to have the document display the correct values on the first Saturday in each month? Do we need to move it to Sunday or set a specific time like 20:00 UTC on Saturday when it must display the values correctly?

When I wrote the law I intented to mean it should display the correct values for all of Saturday, but to avoid confusion I think I will change it to mean 20:00 UTC on Saturday, then those in USA/Canada should have time to update their stats on Saturdays if they have problem with Fridays. Tell me if the change is a problem to you.

(http://universesandbox.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2724.0;attach=24453;image)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2014 01 04, 18:23:14
it'd be great if it was sunday so we could do it on the weekend
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 01 04, 19:12:50
But if it's 20:00 UTC on Saturday, it'll be 21:00 or 22:00 for me and 12:00 for those living in the western part of USA, shouldn't that be enough time for everyone to update it? I'd like to keep it inside Saturday because I reserve Sundays for homework. It's 4 hours from Sunday but means that I can check the document before going to bed. If it's really an issue it can be moved to 21:00 UTC.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2014 01 04, 20:12:52
i guess
i normally don't get to play until sunday but then again i can just sneak it in the morning so it's fiine
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 01 04, 21:48:56
You could also update it before the weekend if you know you're not going to play, maybe the weekend before, and then if you make a few changes to the contents over the next week you could write them into the document while playing. I always write the changes into the document while playing so it always displays the correct values - and then I don't have to look through everything once a month either.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 01 30, 19:46:14
The UBSR laws on the economy have been changed a bit. The most important part is the clarification on when the Google docs should be updated. It must no longer display the correct value for all of UTC Saturdays (which people understood as updating it before Saturday was over), it must now just display the correct values at 21:00 UTC, based on the discussion in this thread. Here's what the law says now:

Quote
Collective storages must be registered in this document, and their manager must update the document so that it shows the correct values the first Saturday at 21:00 (UTC) in each month.

There's also some less strict laws on item libraries now, they can use signs instead of books, and if another system than books is prefered for requests, it's allowed as well:
Quote
the contents are kept constantly updated in publicly available books or signs on chests. UBSR inhabitants may request the items using books, signs or other means of communication.

Remember that February 1st is the next Saturday, and the next time to update the Google doc. :)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Darvince on 2014 02 02, 19:49:34
such collective
very storage
many communism
so equality
wow
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2014 02 03, 03:10:06
why do you conduct a poll on every material once a month? wouldn't it be easier to conduct a poll on whatever material you need whenever there is a request in the voting center, which happens like once a year? unless you're just interested i knowing how much stuff you have all the time
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 02 04, 07:04:23
why do you conduct a poll on every material once a month? wouldn't it be easier to conduct a poll on whatever material you need whenever there is a request in the voting center, which happens like once a year? unless you're just interested i knowing how much stuff you have all the time
We don't conduct a poll once a month, I assume you mean we update the stats every month. We're interested in knowing how much stuff we have. If we didn't know what we had it'd be hard to make polls for resources in the first place. We need something to base them on and seeing how much stuff we have is interesting.
I think this question has been asked many times before.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Komrage on 2014 02 04, 13:42:28
before we had storage stats, there was hardly a single occassion if that, where we did not have enough resources to fulfill a poll request. And if we ever did, then the poll amount could be easily reduced, or only however many resources were present would be given. so it seems quite feasible to create a poll without knowing how many resources are available.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 02 04, 18:47:12
before we had storage stats, there was hardly a single occassion if that, where we did not have enough resources to fulfill a poll request. And if we ever did, then the poll amount could be easily reduced, or only however many resources were present would be given. so it seems quite feasible to create a poll without knowing how many resources are available.
Or you could just easily have storage stats, and those problems would be non-existant. It's not like they're hard to make.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 02 25, 18:59:34
Bump, remember March 1st at 21:00 UTC is the next time when the collective storage doc must display the correct values.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhyGV27WETcEdHZLNHU1LWN5eEhEbVlDQ0laUWQzc2c#gid=8
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 05 02, 13:10:00
Remember collective storages tomorrow

If Blotz hasn't counted his storage already, I can do it this month because he did it last month.

And Fiah if you haven't unlocked the chests in Revolt City's old storage (or reported its contents) and haven't reported the contents in the new storage if you have locked chests there, please do it.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2014 05 03, 14:38:36
oh I havn't can you do it please?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 05 03, 14:57:19
Yes
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2014 05 25, 13:52:17
Question on the new (for me) diamond equipment listing in the collective storage document, are we supposed to count what's in inventory or worn as well?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 05 25, 17:25:27
Question on the new (for me) diamond equipment listing in the collective storage document, are we supposed to count what's in inventory or worn as well?
No
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2014 05 26, 04:01:11
Question on the new (for me) diamond equipment listing in the collective storage document, are we supposed to count what's in inventory or worn as well?
No

Okay.

*stuffs the loads of diamond picks into inventory* jk :D
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 05 26, 05:35:16
Yes I know that trick, but don't do that, then we'll just have to change the rules. :P
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2014 05 28, 17:30:51
Yes I know that trick, but don't do that, then we'll just have to change the rules. :P

I was joking and I'd have to remove them at some point anyway. I did have them in the inventory when I was counting them, but that was just to make the counting a bit easier and I was moving them from where I had them before.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2014 06 05, 19:08:52
collectives in 2 days!
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 07 05, 19:15:02
Remember to update collective storages today!

The gold has been taken from the storages blaccording to the recent poll (the collective storages document has been updated with the gold changes):

Aahrus      29
Guodesia      1
Kaeshar      15
Kaktoland      79
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 12 06, 20:58:53
Updated collective storages doc using Kipz's new script. I manually transferred the data though so there may be errors, and ender chests aren't counted. Please check the doc to see if the values are correct. They should list all your locked chests, not just those in your collective storage. (It wasn't really legal to have locked chests outside them, but I realize not everyone has obeyed this)

Fiah didn't have a collective storage but it was found that he had 21 locked chests, so half of their contents have to be redistributed according to the UBSR laws, here they're listed as output from Kipz's script (bottom part just lists the individual chests and their contents). There's no need to worry about redistributing it for now, as we first need to set up a system for doing that, which would probably mean constructing the central UBSR collective storage.
However, I'd like to ask you to unlock the chests or say if you want to keep any of them locked which will be counted as collective storage in the future. (Updating the Google doc won't be necessary as Kipz's script should do that, however it's very tedious in the current state so I can't promise 100%, but at the least I can give people a list of all their locked items similar to the below)

Fiah's unlawfully locked items are here:

Code: [Select]
minecart : 4
glass bottle : 4
sandstone : 34
netherrack : 146
iron ore : 20
crafting table : 4
slimeball : 15
blaze powder : 7
stone brick : 140
wool : 60
chainmail boots : 1
pumpkin : 16
string : 10
dandelion : 7
nether brick : 164
cobblestone stairs : 5
snowball : 220
flint : 34
emerald : 3
bread : 27
melon seeds : 81
leather : 3
iron ingot : 23
rotten flesh : 43
end stone : 192
arrow : 55
poppy : 104
bone : 427
stone sword : 1
stone brick stairs : 14
oak stairs : 33
fence : 71
torch : 73
sign : 16
cactus : 90
redstone : 49
gold ingot : 4
sand : 139
ice : 34
glowstone : 49
wheat : 1
dirt : 3009
wooden door : 1
bow : 3
wooden pressure plate : 4
raw beef : 3
gold nugget : 13
boat : 2
packed ice : 39
baked potato : 34
trapdoor : 1
enchanted book : 1
stone slab : 160
glass : 3
oak sapling : 73
stick : 106
sulphur : 7
gravel : 170
bucket : 2
iron axe : 2
oak slab : 174
ink sack : 251
gold ore : 5
stone pressure plate : 1
white stained glass : 4
nether brick fence : 100
wheat seeds : 148
white stained clay : 320
snow : 16
chest : 1
gold leggings : 1
water bucket : 1
furnace : 33
glowstone dust : 5
potion : 13
sugarcane : 128
ladder : 200
rail : 3
diamond pickaxe : 2
cobblestone : 192
spider eye : 7
flint and steel : 3
ender pearl : 164
oak wood : 13
iron shovel : 2
coal : 25
glass pane : 13
blaze rod : 384
obsidian : 3
oak planks : 205
egg : 17

pos: 65 64 1309 0
bone : 4
sulphur : 2
rail : 1
dirt : 64
emerald : 3
oak planks : 7
arrow : 6
gold ingot : 4
redstone : 45
snowball : 1
gravel : 33
obsidian : 3
bow : 1
chest : 1
egg : 1
glass bottle : 4
string : 2
flint : 5
ink sack : 11
pos: 12 64 1278 0
ender pearl : 14
stone brick : 7
wooden door : 1
enchanted book : 1
gold ore : 5
rotten flesh : 6
snow : 16
sugarcane : 128
gold nugget : 11
cobblestone : 64
crafting table : 4
pos: 372 64 -212 0
dirt : 192
ladder : 100
sign : 1
oak sapling : 24
wooden pressure plate : 4
sand : 56
ender pearl : 132
bone : 57
flint and steel : 1
furnace : 14
ink sack : 3
pos: 5041 80 396 0
bread : 27
oak stairs : 33
arrow : 1
netherrack : 64
pos: 5035 80 396 0
white stained clay : 128
pos: 6 65 1311 0
dirt : 216
cobblestone : 15
poppy : 32
oak sapling : 13
wheat seeds : 11
coal : 12
snowball : 58
gravel : 1
rotten flesh : 8
sign : 2
diamond pickaxe : 1
end stone : 64
iron ore : 11
stone pressure plate : 1
pos: 65 66 1305 0
potion : 13
pos: 28 49 1255 0
bone : 256
ladder : 36
stone brick : 1
dirt : 128
oak planks : 15
snowball : 27
iron axe : 1
stone sword : 1
boat : 1
ender pearl : 2
stick : 28
wool : 24
egg : 16
gravel : 2
flint : 5
pos: 2811 64 -808 0
dirt : 136
stone brick : 64
flint and steel : 1
oak planks : 37
raw beef : 2
sand : 9
gravel : 1
leather : 1
nether brick fence : 100
wool : 11
oak slab : 110
pos: 136 68 842 0
glowstone : 49
dirt : 128
iron ingot : 23
glass pane : 13
wheat seeds : 64
pos: 37 78 1318 0
baked potato : 30
bow : 1
arrow : 45
pos: -473 68 1595 0
sulphur : 1
flint and steel : 1
poppy : 62
oak sapling : 36
ladder : 64
minecart : 3
stone slab : 12
melon seeds : 2
raw beef : 1
sand : 64
gravel : 1
ice : 34
chainmail boots : 1
dirt : 192
spider eye : 1
string : 7
gold leggings : 1
furnace : 1
flint : 20
ink sack : 127
pos: 65 64 1308 0
trapdoor : 1
sulphur : 2
cobblestone stairs : 2
sign : 2
oak wood : 1
oak planks : 2
poppy : 4
wheat seeds : 2
glowstone dust : 5
coal : 13
stone slab : 2
gravel : 64
rotten flesh : 8
cactus : 1
gold nugget : 2
pumpkin : 15
sandstone : 34
dirt : 233
furnace : 1
bow : 1
pos: 12 64 1279 0
bone : 64
sign : 4
arrow : 2
baked potato : 4
redstone : 4
gravel : 4
iron ore : 1
netherrack : 45
flint : 2
pos: 6 65 1310 0
bone : 3
stone brick : 2
dirt : 384
oak planks : 64
wheat seeds : 64
sand : 10
snowball : 96
cobblestone stairs : 3
pumpkin : 1
blaze powder : 7
end stone : 128
furnace : 11
flint : 2
dandelion : 2
pos: 2811 64 -809 0
iron shovel : 2
stone brick : 64
sign : 7
cobblestone : 68
water bucket : 1
stone slab : 82
boat : 1
packed ice : 39
iron ore : 8
nether brick : 164
dirt : 128
netherrack : 37
stone brick stairs : 14
oak slab : 64
pos: 5032 80 396 0
white stained clay : 192
pos: 373 64 -212 0
dirt : 960
arrow : 1
rotten flesh : 6
oak wood : 4
torch : 64
string : 1
pos: 34 67 1328 0
sulphur : 2
rail : 2
dirt : 70
cobblestone : 45
oak planks : 80
wheat seeds : 2
stone slab : 64
snowball : 6
iron axe : 1
rotten flesh : 2
oak wood : 8
torch : 4
stick : 78
stone brick : 2
ink sack : 22
white stained glass : 4
pos: 28 49 1254 0
dirt : 111
dandelion : 1
poppy : 6
melon seeds : 79
snowball : 32
gravel : 64
rotten flesh : 13
ender pearl : 16
cactus : 89
torch : 5
fence : 7
diamond pickaxe : 1
spider eye : 6
slimeball : 15
furnace : 6
ink sack : 1
pos: -473 68 1596 0
bone : 43
dirt : 67
bucket : 2
wheat seeds : 5
minecart : 1
leather : 2
blaze rod : 384
wool : 25
glass : 3
fence : 64
wheat : 1
dandelion : 4
ink sack : 87
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2014 12 06, 21:12:08
What is the script reading as being sulphur when it isn't actually a thing in vanilla MC?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 12 06, 21:21:33
What is the script reading as being sulphur when it isn't actually a thing in vanilla MC?
Gunpowder

Here are the future plans for collective storages:

- Provided the script becomes efficient for updating, it should be possible to have decentralized private chests instead of collective storages. So you can lock chests anywhere.
- The script counts all items you've locked, so you don't have to do anything.
- A central collective storage (which we've discussed earlier) would be built, probably in Kaktoland. This isn't attached to any person, so items from it can only be polled out. And in a poll, these items are used before stuff from other people in UBSR. It would also accept donations, if people voluntarily want to donate stuff for projects. Confiscated items from previous inspections would also end up here.

You're welcome to discuss these ideas as I probably won't have time or manage to pull myself together to update the UBSR laws and build the central collective anytime soon plus it'd probably be best to finish work on the script before getting too excited over handing all the updates over to me. It took about 2 hours this time and I'm not too happy with having to dedicate that every month from now on, and if people get excited to store a lot more in collective it'll take even more time if the script isn't made to prepare the data for the Google doc format. (And even the Google doc format might also be worth reconsidering, gahh)
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: b-ong on 2014 12 06, 22:59:41
hmm, what took 2 hours? entering in the things? if it's just updates its one time and should be quick. anyways we can keep them in text format or you could paste them here and we can enter them in
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 12 07, 06:36:47
It took 2 hours to download the world, run the script for every person and then (most of the time) entering the values manually from output into spreadsheet. It's not really quick when you have to search through it to match hundreds of items.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: smjjames on 2014 12 07, 14:34:40
Uhh, so does that mean I should unprivate the chest that I have for valuables (mostly diamond armor, and some other stuff) which is currently privated?
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2014 12 07, 22:10:59
No need to.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2015 01 03, 18:02:11
So Kipz's script is now working efficiently, and I've changed the UBSR law on collective storages. They're now defined as all chests you've created an LWC protection on, in any location in the game, and it is no longer necessary for people to update the Google doc, which I will update the first Saturday each month. The item library law has been removed as they're now obsolete, and their contents will automatically be added to the collective storages. People are still welcome to use signs/books for communication about the stuff in them ofc.
One thing to be aware of is that it's still recommended not to use the ender chests for long term storage, as Kip's script doesn't count their contents. They're still in a gray area.
http://blacraft.wikia.com/wiki/Rules/Law_of_the_Union_of_Blacraft_Socialist_Regions
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2015 01 04, 14:48:08
Kip updated the script to include ender chest contents, so the law has been updated and there's no longer a problem with people storing items in ender chests.
Title: Re: Collective Storages
Post by: Bla on 2015 03 08, 19:33:44
Here are some quick graphs on the total value of items in our collective storages since 2012. (I finished moving our 2012 data from the old sheet into the new sheet we started using in 2013).

Coal (http://i.imgur.com/XZWLC5p.png)
Iron (http://i.imgur.com/EvFEhst.png)
Gold (http://i.imgur.com/h5TyHRa.png)
Diamonds (http://i.imgur.com/v2lMpAv.png)
Emeralds (http://i.imgur.com/axVaVah.png)
Lapis Lazuli (http://i.imgur.com/dkw07m9.png)
Redstone (http://i.imgur.com/zb2nGq2.png)
Glowstone (http://i.imgur.com/NFt30DF.png)
Obsidian (http://i.imgur.com/qN7aysT.png)
Bricks (http://i.imgur.com/UOJHhYR.png)
Stone (http://i.imgur.com/Z5wR0Gm.png)
Sandstone (http://i.imgur.com/2lJmAKx.png)
Sand (http://i.imgur.com/6GN0nTB.png)
Glass (http://i.imgur.com/XZ4knn1.png)
Wool (http://i.imgur.com/To3nql2.png)
Wood (http://i.imgur.com/cbhhiuJ.png)