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Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by AeriOwl on 2018 01 28, 23:21:50 »
would like to point out--

moving your mouse every 30 minutes to escape the AFK timer shouldn't be a valid option because then it's trivial to write a script that moves ones mouse every 30 minutes with no way to really verify if it was done by a script or a person, thus negating the purpose of an AFK timer
Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by Bla on 2018 01 28, 22:47:06 »
To Fiah:
Yeah Blacraft is hardly very competitive. But still we're all playing in a survival world, building with resources we gather with some effort. If someone has alts and it lowers the effort, they can build something more impressive than the others, because they spent some irl money. I don't think that's very good and I think it makes the survival world less of a uniform world for everyone, but closer to a Creative-ish world for others.

To Yqt:
I don't see how more afks minimize the cost - why would players coordinate their alts and not just put them in the farms they want randomly and independently of each other?

You've already built the iron phoenix so I understand it would be annoying if the rules were changed and it became ruined. In the future, people might build farms with the rules in mind that you're not supposed to afk for over some amount. Maybe we could consider something higher than 30 minutes. However I also think if it's 30 mins there's still nothing preventing you from checking up on the game, moving your mouse a bit to stay online, or (depending on the farm design) do something in-game around where you're farming.

To Komrage:
Minecraft survival isn't unfun imo because you can't have a beacon per minute or whatever. It just means you'e gonna put fewer beacons everywhere. You're gonna adjust your building to it every time there's a limiting factor. I think that's part of what makes survival good.

You might afk at a farm so maybe you do something else on your comp but still check up on the game every once in a while. At least that's how I farmed xp back in that terrible skele farm back in like 2012.
Alternatively you might stripmine or build something near your farms to kill time, or build them near places you're often at, if the design allows for it.

I would still allow alts for testing server-related things, which was all I thought you and Yqt were using the alts for initially. For testing redstone designs etc. I'm not sure, again I think if you really need to use an alt to test it, maybe find someone to ask for help.

Your solution is smart but I also feel it's a bit... "theoretical" or Idk what word to use to describe it. In theory it's perfectly fair and solves the problem, but I just don't feel we should sit outside the game and calculate how much afk time every player can have and spend time putting alts where people want them. If we have a volunteer for this I may consider it though.

To Kalassak:
Yeah that makes sense. I also feel it's unfair to take away items from people for breaking rules that weren't really there previously. But maybe they could be compelled to share the items.
Mending books aren't that hard/rare to get tbh and you don't need to farm very much to get them. If you get a villager with the trade you can get dozens of them relatively easily, and you probably won't need more than few dozens to put mending on all the stuff you're using basically. If it were wither skulls or they farmed some other item it might be more serious.

I'd say I'm inclined to ban alts for other purposes than testing, re-banning afk machines etc. and having an afk timer where I'm inclined towards 30-120 minutes, but still open to ideas.
Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by atomic7732 on 2018 01 28, 22:27:50 »
while i think it is somewhat cheaty and unfair, i think it would be more unfair to unindustrialized people to ban it now (unless you remove/distribute some quantity of the items from the now-banned processes), because for example let's say i want mending books. yqt has afk farmed mending books for a few days or whatever and has them, and they're a resource people are more likely to keep for themselves because they are rare, unlike iron, which people can get reasonable amounts of just by asking

if you banned afking, i wouldn't be able to get mending books while other already industrialized people would have them and i would have limited ways to get them other than long and hard grinding with emeralds and whatever (of which i have basically none) with villagers, which is not something i'm particularly interested in doing

it's kind of like the global warming problem and why developing nations get to pollute more because they aren't industrialized yet
Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by Komrage on 2018 01 28, 22:15:54 »
i only skimmed the post and replies but here's my take

1. afk time is needed to prevent the game from being grindy and unfun
2. afk time is expensive in server costs and other intangible costs
3. alts reduce both those costs, at the cost (heh) of real world money

anyway here's my solution which i proposed a few weeks back
1. ban afking, but not alts, so you can still use alts for testing/whatever
2. allot everyone X hours of "simulated afk time" (SAT). X = 100 or 200 should be a good number
3. have people who want to afk time rates of their farm in an unbiased manner
4. each month, people can select how to distribute their X hours across their farms, and using the computed rates, spawn in the appropriate amount of drops they would've gotten

basically, it's simulated afking without the associated costs and problems
Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by yqt1001 on 2018 01 28, 22:05:35 »
I like the post industrial revolution status quo but I would be ok with some regulations. I try my best to not use my alts for an "unfair" advantage. Only on one night did I use one to afk farm at two different places. I've never used it to increase spawns. I'm currently using it to stop mobs in the nether from spawning so I don't have to worry about them when building.

The problem with an AFK limit of 30 minutes is that there are farm designs where that simply isn't enough to get it running. My iron phoenix, for example, takes an hour and a half to get up to maximum production. If I log out or leave and unload the chunks, it's broken and will take another hour and a half to get to max production. This is why when I use it, I start it up once and leave my alt there for a few days so at least I can enjoy the game while its running.

If we are looking at it from a server cost perspective, the more alts afking the better, as it allows us to minimize up time in the long term if everyone is on afking at once.
Blacraft General / Re: Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by AeriOwl on 2018 01 28, 21:56:46 »
i don't pay for the server upkeep so i can't really comment on that aspect

and i'm not sure if having an advantage is an issue considering, well, it's not like the stuff yqt gets from afking will be used to compete against me in something (or maybe it will?)

my primary concern is limiting lag, if alts are causing lag then i think we should definitely kill them in favor of letting actual players play the game

you do bring up a good point on how instead of paying for the time it costs for the alts to afk we can instead pay to increase performance for actual players. this is a really interesting point and something i'd like to see discussed more
Blacraft General / Alt Account and AFK Discussion
« Last post by Bla on 2018 01 28, 21:52:25 »
Some years ago, we used to have a rule not to make "AFK machines" that prevented you from going afk, and a kick after e.g. 30 mins of AFK.

Since then this norm has been destroyed and with the "industrial revolution" recently I see people are even using alts to increase spawn rates and stay online for many hours to get items without actively playing.

I think we should move away from this. First of all I think it's not a very good solution using alts to increase spawn rates, this gives an advantage to people with alts and alts cost money. I think people who have one Minecraft account should have the same advantage as people who have the money to buy 10.

Secondly the server expenses and performance. I feel putting an alt (or main account) to stay near some farms to gather endless items for 8 hours while doing something else, isn't really a way of playing we should encourage. This is an expensive way to play the game and we could save some money that we could enjoy on e.g. better performance instead. (Assuming activity and costs remain high the coming months, otherwise there's not a big issue). Additionally accounts near some big farms bring down the whole server tps significantly, so someone putting an alt near industry and going to sleep may negatively affect the enjoyability of people who log on to play actively.
I think it might be better if there was maybe a 30 minute kick after going AFK, people could stay at mob farms, get some items but not just go to sleep.

So I'm wondering what do you guys think about this?
Blacraft General / Re: Nether Elytra Standardization Discussion
« Last post by AeriOwl on 2018 01 28, 19:32:18 »
sounds fine to me

i think the tunnels should be 5-10 blocks high and wide, at least from experience digging one to laplaya
Blacraft General / Nether Elytra Standardization Discussion
« Last post by Bla on 2018 01 28, 00:54:40 »
A new form of transportation, elytra flight paths, have started to become a thing in the Nether. Before the network grows too big I think we should think a bit about how we might want this to develop.

We have moved portals, horse roads and ice roads to near the top of the Nether for efficiency, and I think it's been a success with so many people joining it. So having elytra paths near this infrastructure seems useful.

I'm thinking, we could leave the arrow-only elytra flight paths as they are and keep those as a second-hand network, because they're useful and cheap to develop, but I think if people plan to dig out and build elytra flight paths, let's find way to make these fit together for all players in a good way.

I suggest we standardize built out elytra flight paths to be developed around y = 85 to 95. This is the top of the relatively hollow part of the nether.
There could still be cases where actual elytra flight tunnels are built elsewhere, and connections from this y level network to other elytra flight networks.
Land Division / Re: Timbaltor Plains [Voting]
« Last post by Bla on 2018 01 23, 22:03:12 »
Kol, I vote yes. I recommend you preserve whatever significant old stuff you come across, like the buildings in the village.
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